Chris Lind Update
Well, I certainly struck a chord with this post. Members of our local educational community have made multiple comments defending the action of the school board in the comment section. That the comments were (mostly) respectful and worked toward greater understanding of the issue is greatly appreciated. It is imperative that we all communicate if we are ever going to resolve probems within the community. Talking WITH one another (as opposed to talking AT one another) is sometimes a lost art.
Two commenters took issue with my characterization that this is "persecution". I will concede that the title of the post may have been a bit hyperbolic, but given the past history of this school district it is not a totally unfair characterization - especially given today's Star Tribune story on the issue.
"His story is difficult to tell -- he's reluctant to say much, and the school district says it's legally prevented from saying much, including the substance of the complaints against Lind.
A dedicated Christian, Lind has become a de facto advice-giver, friend and religious mentor to some students. He said the district told him not to talk to students -- even off campus -- about "traditional values," namely, the district didn't want him to talk to students about abstinence or their sexual orientation. He didn't listen.
"I can't say I followed that directive," said Lind, 43. "I didn't feel that, morally, I could."
Again, I go back to one of my basic complaints about how the district is handling this. The district can not, under the tenants of the Constitution, dictate someone's speech off campus. I fully understand the need for restriction of speech ON CAMPUS. However, off campus is another story. Whether a teacher (or any other employee of a school district) chooses to use it or not, they have the same basic rights of free speech that all Americans have. They can and should advocate for the things that they believe in - as long as that advocation is off campus and on their own time and that is where Chris limited his speech about his faith. According to the Star Tribune report the board is targeting Chris because of his faith and that my friends is persecution, it is discrimination, it IS unConstitutional.
"He says students of all stripes -- "the popular kids, the goth kids, the brainiac kids" -- have approached him looking for advice. He's met with them off campus, at places such as Caribou Coffee, to talk. Sometimes, he said, parents with a troubled child would ask him to help. Some of these relationships went on for years, he said.
Lind says he would meet with students "maybe once" without parents' knowledge but would call parents for permission to mentor their children beyond that point."
This is a point of contention for the teachers in the comment thread. I do understand their concern, but there are circumstances when prior parental approval may not be wise. I would ask the teachers to put themselves into the following hypotheticals. Suppose you found out that one of your students was being sexually or physically abused by a parent or guardian. You know, as a "trusted adult" that you should try to counsel that child into making the right choice (going to the authorities). Would you go to the parent or guardian for permission to talk to that child first or would you just talk to the kid off campus where they might loosen up? Doing the former would set that kid up for retaliatory abuse from the abusive parent and doing the latter puts you in the same boat as Chris. WHAT DO YOU DO???? The second hypothetical is this. You overhear a student talking to a friend about commiting suicide. Mindful of the suicides that we had in the high school just two short years ago, what do you do? Time is of the essence in this situation....mom and dad are at work and the kid said he wanted to stage it so that he (or she) was dead by the time that mom and dad got home! What I am getting at is that there are times when parental permission is not appropriate or available on the first chat. Subsequent visits, oh heck yeah, and never, ever EVER in private. Since it appears that Chris was doing both of those anyway I would think that those concerns have been addressed.
"According to Joe Flynn, the district's lawyer, because Lind wasn't a licensed school employee or a union member, the district doesn't need to go through an extensive hearing process before dismissal. There have been no Scott County criminal or civil charges filed against Lind." (emphasis mine)
No criminal or civil charges have been filed....that is a telling statement. According to this there has been no negligence, no criminal activity, no other compelling reason for the employment action. Why is this happening if there is no negligence or criminal activity? Because the School Board, in it's role of employer, gave the employee an unconstitutional order? An order that the employee rightly refuse because of it's unConstitutionality? It is certainly looking that way...especially in light of this statement.
"Human resources director Tony Massaros wouldn't answer a generic question about what off-campus staff behavior the district can regulate. "
If the Human Resources Director can't even answer a generic question about off campus behavior, how are they going to be able to justify this action to the public and to any attorney's that might come as a result of the action (yes there are lawsuits being talked about that are dependent of the boards decision....our tax dollars at work).
A lot more detail is becoming known (thanks to the Star Tribune) we are getting a clearer picture of the school boards actions in this matter. I can not say that this is a picture that I (as a parent in the district and a taxpayer) am completely comfortable with. I may have been quick on the trigger (with the hyperbole) last week but it is starting to look justified. Should we the taxpayer, as the employers of the school board, take a closer look into this issue?
Two commenters took issue with my characterization that this is "persecution". I will concede that the title of the post may have been a bit hyperbolic, but given the past history of this school district it is not a totally unfair characterization - especially given today's Star Tribune story on the issue.
"His story is difficult to tell -- he's reluctant to say much, and the school district says it's legally prevented from saying much, including the substance of the complaints against Lind.
A dedicated Christian, Lind has become a de facto advice-giver, friend and religious mentor to some students. He said the district told him not to talk to students -- even off campus -- about "traditional values," namely, the district didn't want him to talk to students about abstinence or their sexual orientation. He didn't listen.
"I can't say I followed that directive," said Lind, 43. "I didn't feel that, morally, I could."
Again, I go back to one of my basic complaints about how the district is handling this. The district can not, under the tenants of the Constitution, dictate someone's speech off campus. I fully understand the need for restriction of speech ON CAMPUS. However, off campus is another story. Whether a teacher (or any other employee of a school district) chooses to use it or not, they have the same basic rights of free speech that all Americans have. They can and should advocate for the things that they believe in - as long as that advocation is off campus and on their own time and that is where Chris limited his speech about his faith. According to the Star Tribune report the board is targeting Chris because of his faith and that my friends is persecution, it is discrimination, it IS unConstitutional.
"He says students of all stripes -- "the popular kids, the goth kids, the brainiac kids" -- have approached him looking for advice. He's met with them off campus, at places such as Caribou Coffee, to talk. Sometimes, he said, parents with a troubled child would ask him to help. Some of these relationships went on for years, he said.
Lind says he would meet with students "maybe once" without parents' knowledge but would call parents for permission to mentor their children beyond that point."
This is a point of contention for the teachers in the comment thread. I do understand their concern, but there are circumstances when prior parental approval may not be wise. I would ask the teachers to put themselves into the following hypotheticals. Suppose you found out that one of your students was being sexually or physically abused by a parent or guardian. You know, as a "trusted adult" that you should try to counsel that child into making the right choice (going to the authorities). Would you go to the parent or guardian for permission to talk to that child first or would you just talk to the kid off campus where they might loosen up? Doing the former would set that kid up for retaliatory abuse from the abusive parent and doing the latter puts you in the same boat as Chris. WHAT DO YOU DO???? The second hypothetical is this. You overhear a student talking to a friend about commiting suicide. Mindful of the suicides that we had in the high school just two short years ago, what do you do? Time is of the essence in this situation....mom and dad are at work and the kid said he wanted to stage it so that he (or she) was dead by the time that mom and dad got home! What I am getting at is that there are times when parental permission is not appropriate or available on the first chat. Subsequent visits, oh heck yeah, and never, ever EVER in private. Since it appears that Chris was doing both of those anyway I would think that those concerns have been addressed.
"According to Joe Flynn, the district's lawyer, because Lind wasn't a licensed school employee or a union member, the district doesn't need to go through an extensive hearing process before dismissal. There have been no Scott County criminal or civil charges filed against Lind." (emphasis mine)
No criminal or civil charges have been filed....that is a telling statement. According to this there has been no negligence, no criminal activity, no other compelling reason for the employment action. Why is this happening if there is no negligence or criminal activity? Because the School Board, in it's role of employer, gave the employee an unconstitutional order? An order that the employee rightly refuse because of it's unConstitutionality? It is certainly looking that way...especially in light of this statement.
"Human resources director Tony Massaros wouldn't answer a generic question about what off-campus staff behavior the district can regulate. "
If the Human Resources Director can't even answer a generic question about off campus behavior, how are they going to be able to justify this action to the public and to any attorney's that might come as a result of the action (yes there are lawsuits being talked about that are dependent of the boards decision....our tax dollars at work).
A lot more detail is becoming known (thanks to the Star Tribune) we are getting a clearer picture of the school boards actions in this matter. I can not say that this is a picture that I (as a parent in the district and a taxpayer) am completely comfortable with. I may have been quick on the trigger (with the hyperbole) last week but it is starting to look justified. Should we the taxpayer, as the employers of the school board, take a closer look into this issue?
Labels: Christianity, Education
18 Comments:
Zero comments on this side? This cannot be allowed to stand! ;-)
J. Ewing
By Anonymous, at 4:08 PM
I always figured you to be a troublemaker!
:-0
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 4:37 PM
Since it seems as though numerous students have been looking to Mr. Lind for guidance, an issue that seems to have been overlooked is that all "certified" educators are mandated reporters. One must report even suspicion of destructive or abusive behaviors to the proper authorities. I wonder if Mr. Lind, a supervisor, is bound by this law. If not, this opens up the potential for Mr. Lind to make personal judgments about whether to report what he hears, possibly leading to terrible results.
If Mr. Lind wants to provide this type of service, he should go back to school and be properly trained.
Also, why do I feel that there is a Friendship Church" conspiracy in this district?
By Anonymous, at 1:57 PM
"Also, why do I feel that there is a Friendship Church" conspiracy in this district? "
Pot meet kettle - you come here "anonymously" and imply a conspiracy???? You had best have something to back that claim up, my anonymous friend....
Regarding mandatory reporters....Mr. Lind is (as I have taken great pains to point out) NOT a teacher. This was not about personal judgements that Mr. Lind made against the students, as the Prior Lake American pointed out, it was personal judgements made against MR. LIND by the school board.....
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 4:02 PM
LL,
Let me spell this out a bit more simply to you. If, in fact, Mr. Lind is not a mandated reporter (I know he is not currently a teacher, but that does not preclude the possibility that he could still be a mandated reporter!), he could be listening to "certain" information from students and not reporting it to the proper authorities. Should a campus supervisor be trusted to properly determine what information can be safely kept quiet and which needs to be reported?
The facts...Mr. Lind was offering his own moral and religious advice to students in and out of the school setting and all, apparently, with the blessing of his church. What advice he was giving away from his former job is not my concern. The fact that he couldn't do his job in school without the sermons is my concern.
And what does anonymous have to do with anything? Would a couple of initials make you feel more secure in your thoughts?
By Anonymous, at 7:35 PM
You come here anonymously and accuse anonymous people in some church of conspiring against the school district and you imply that I don't get it when I question you.....
Let ME put this simply anonymous...do you have proof that anyone at Friendship Church is behind Mr. Lind's actions?????
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 10:25 PM
http://bp3.blogger.com/_LhhzMRZ5CEc/RnrBlO2nWrI/AAAAAAAAADo/fca70ByMRWA/s1600-h/Fry2.jpg
Read that and tell me whose conspiracy anonymous.....
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 10:25 PM
LL,
I had already read that statement. If I assume it is accurate, the district, I feel, overextended its reach.
Proof that the church is involved? Let's say I am going on a sort of blind faith. And of course, how would one go about arguing against that?
Good luck with your quest for the truth.
LN
By Anonymous, at 11:15 PM
Well the church IS involved in that it is supporting a member that is being discriminated agaisnt, but that is hardly grounds for a conspiracy charge which you so recklessly threw out. You have to have some "reason" for your belief that there is a conspiracy. Why is it you refuse to say why?
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 7:24 AM
LL,
Here are my final comments on the Chris Lind firing. One, his offenses at work were enough to get him fired. Two, he had a second (and third?)chance to clean up his performance and chose not to knowing that he would eventually be terminated. Three, he was not fired or discrminated against because he is a Christian. That argument has no basis in fact or logic (Look at the make-up of the school board and district administration - Jesus is everywhere!) Four, he should save his legal fees (and the money from "donors") because he simply is not going to get anywhere.
Given the litigious nature of our society, especially the current trend of suing school districts, I GUARANTEE you that the PL district has its documentation in order on this.
By Anonymous, at 1:17 PM
Chris went on Catholic Heart with St. Mikes last year to Texas. It is a work mission trip. Maybe it is a "St. Mikes conspiracy on the district." Actually people from four different churches spoke to the board asking Chris not to be fired. Do you even know four people from different churches that would care if you got fired.
By Anonymous, at 4:32 PM
Anonymous - Yes I am aware that Chris had 4 people from other churches speak for him. I know the 4!
And yes, if it's any of your business I do know more than a few people from a variety of churches in the area. What's your point?
By The Lady Logician, at 4:37 PM
simply put, chris lind cannot be allowed to use his position as a conduit to young people's minds. he is using his position of authority to his advantage and overstepping his bounds, even if it occurs off campus. how would he know these children were it not for his positon at the school. i am sure if there was a homosexual person in this position, conducting themselves normally during the workday, but having meetings OFF-CAMPUS that discussed homosexuality, there would be a response in deference by magnitudes from the religious right that is supporting chris.
firing was the best answer following his insubordination.
democratic election was his solution. the answer to this story is yet to be told, but i can't imagine that the road will be and easy one when promoting this type of agenda.
By Anonymous, at 9:33 AM
This is the actual Jeff Ewing here. I am not sure who used my initials in the above post, but even the board members in the district and Tom know me to always include my full name when commenting on the district and it's affairs. For those of you who do not have the full facts on Chris Lind....join the club...I don't either...Maybe the facts should be presented by both sides now that Chris has been elected by the public.
And as far as the Superintendent and Board go....I presented an article to the Prior Lake American about one of Tom's actions within the school district. The PL American refused to print it because their attorneys characterized the action Illegal and unethical. So don't let the District management lead you into believing they are squeaky clean, they have been victimizing students for years.
And for whoever used my name....Man up and quit using my name...disgusting
Jeff Ewing
By Anonymous, at 9:45 PM
And what "type of agenda" would that be Anon???? You don't think that our children are innundated people's agendas on a daily basis as it is? You obviously don't have kids in this district because I KNOW that my child is being indoctrinated on a variety of issues - some that I agree with, some I do not. As a parent I try to make sure that my child hears all sides of an issue. IT'S MY JOB!
Jeff - I have heard a few "stories" about the board myself. Because those stories come 3rd and 4th hand for the most part, I give them the credence that they are due. However, the one thing I DO know about the school board is that there is a certain "arrogance" (for lack of a better word) that they have. Whether it be parents concerned about the readiness of their child about going to WolfRidge ELC or the concerns about the naming of the high school - the board has always been rather dismissive of parents and their concerns when those concerns are contrary to the Board's imperial view.
Even though I was on "their side" of the school naming debate, I was disgusted with the way that the board treated the citizens of Savage who felt that they had no say in the naming of the High School.
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 7:46 AM
Oh and the J. Ewing in the first comment is Jerry and is a person that I know quite well. Apparently your initials are quite popular Jeff!
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 7:48 AM
Jesus said hate the sin, love the sinner. From what I have read in the PL American, Chris's comment was that it was national pick on gay/lesbians day. That is not showing the love of Jesus. Chris is no Christian.
He is extorting the board now by having his attorney send a letter to the board stating the district needs to pay him money so he won't sue the district. This would not be the first time Chris has sued an entity or person - check county and state records. Again, this is not the action of a Christian.
If Christianity were against the law and he was charged with being a Christian, my personal belief is he would not be convicted of being a Christian because there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict him.
By Anonymous, at 12:46 PM
As has been explained here many times Anonymous, the context of the remarks show that it was a JOKE. Read the comments as I know the context was posted in here before.
Regarding the lawyer situation, I know from Chris that this particular letter was drawn up when the employment action was taken last spring! That is one reason why Chris has not answered any questions from the media - because of the lawyers.
This is not a new development but a continuation of something that happened long before the election.
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 1:25 PM
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