Pastor Nick Coleman
John Nienstedt, Coadjutor Archbishop of the Catholic Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis, has been quoted as saying he believes homosexuality is the result of some kind of childhood trauma. Today, he is inflicting trauma of his own.
That's the opinion of many Catholic friends and relatives of gay and lesbian people in the Twin Cities. They say they have been wounded and angered by comments Nienstedt made about homosexuals in the Nov. 15 edition of The Catholic Spirit, the official newspaper of the archdiocese.
How's that for irony....Comrade Coleman publishes his opinion multiple times a week in a newspaper. When we "wing-nuts" complain to the Star Tribune about something that he has said in his opinion piece, we are out of line. Yet here he is complaining about the Archbishop prining an opinion in his own paper? How does that work Comrade????
Next Nicky goes into doctrine.
"Those who actively encourage or promote homosexual acts or such activity within a homosexual lifestyle formally cooperate in a grave evil," wrote Nienstedt, who is scheduled to succeed retiring Archbishop Harry Flynn in May. "If they do so knowingly and willingly, [they] are guilty of mortal sin."
Nienstedt went on to set three conditions for such church members to receive communion: They must experience a "conversion of heart," express "sorrow for their action" and receive absolution from a priest...
The catechism, in my reading, says homosexual acts cannot be approved but does not label them a "grave evil." Homosexuals, like all baptized persons, are "called to chastity." But somehow, the sins of homosexuals always get denounced before the sins of straight people. And if gays must be accepted with compassion and respect, those qualities seem notably missing from Nienstedt's statement.
First off Nick, gays have to accept doctrinal teaching in order to be accepted with "compassion and respect", not the other way around! All sinners - all mankind have to do so. That is the gist of ANY religious teaching!
Now I can not speak to the Catholic Catechism as I am not a Catholic. However, I have enough Catholics in my life that I have been exposed to enough to know that Nickolae is wrong again! Nick obviously has not read his Old Testament or if he has he conveniently skipped over this passage.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
That is Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 and the emphasis is mine. Merriam Websters Dictionary defines abomination as "worthy of or causing disgust or hatred". A sin "worthy of or causing disgust or hatred" is considered to be a grave evil which the Archbishop says homosexuality is IS. Doctrinally, there is nothing out of line in what the Archbishop said!
Nick Coleman professes to be a Christian. His scorn for all things conservative speak volumes about him and his faith. For he has no love for his fellow man - at least not those who have a conservative world view. That much is obvious. Ephesians 4:15 (speak the truth in love) obviously has no meaning to Mr. Coleman. Then again Nick Coleman also professes to be an objective journalist. Given what we know about Mr. Coleman's journalistic objectivity (or lack thereof) maybe there is some insight into his faith as well.Labels: Nick Coleman
14 Comments:
Good post - I agree wholeheartedly. Archbishop Nienstedt is doing what he's supposed to do. But Nick Coleman is smarter than all of us. He's a civil engineer (albeit lacking civility), a theologian and, like Wile E. Coyote, a super genius. Just ask him.
Best,
Mr. D
By Mr. D, at 8:31 PM
Thanks for a righteous rant about a complete baboon. This guy is, indeed, a bitter old man (I never thought of him as anything more than odious and ill-informed).
Hate the sin but love the repentant sinner is an enlightened policy.
By Anonymous, at 5:02 PM
Love the sinner not the sin. That is what Jesus taught and modeled. The thing is, he told the sinners to "Go and sin NO MORE" after forgiving them. That is the part that Nickolai conveniently forgets.
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 6:16 PM
Leviticus also says that gay men should be put to death. Do you agree with that?
What about Deuteronomy Chapter 22, where if a man doesn't like his wife, and can prove she was not a virgin at the time of marriage, she shall be stoned?
By lloydletta, at 12:04 AM
Eva dear....read my previous comment. Love the sinner, hate the sin! That is the CORE of Jesus' teachings. It is the CORE of the NEW Covenant versus the OLD one.
Deuteronony 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear a mans clothing - that it is an abomination and yet one of his most precious Saints is St. Joan of Ark - who donned a man's armor in order to fight for the faith! Additionally the context of the passage that you misquote says that the woman can prove her husband to be a liar and if she does HE is the one that is cast out!
You simply can not cherry pick like that. There IS context in the Bible (unlike the Koran) and the context usually adds that people love to forget.
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 9:17 AM
You didn't answer my question about Leviticus 18:20 I believe - which says gay men should be put to death. It says nothing about women. There's nothing in there about love the sinner, hate the sin there. Calling people "gravely evil" is hardly "love the sinner".
The 10 commandments interestingly enough mention adultery, but don't mention homosexuality. Homosexuality isn't mentioned in the gospel.
By lloydletta, at 7:21 PM
By the way since you quoted the verse:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
EY: Does this mean you support the Death Penalty for Gays? This verse clearly says this.
By lloydletta, at 7:47 PM
I've read the Gospel of John many times, and I've never seen a footnote to John 3:16 that says:
*doesn't apply if you're gay*
My baptismal certificate doesn't have any such caveats either.
I don't happen believe in degrees of sin... (nor does Rev. Billy Graham). Lying, lust, greed, coveting, pride... I think they all qualify.
If Archbiship Nienstedt is 'doing what he is supposed to do', as another commenter states, I guess that means his pastoral call is to make the church smaller, not larger.
By Markh, at 7:56 PM
Please give chapter and verse Eva. I checked 4 different versions of Leviticus 18:22 and not a single one of them mentioned putting anyone to death for sexual immorality.
Which version are you reading? The King James (and New King James), the Revised Standard, the English Standard AND the New International Versions are the ones that I checked.
By The Lady Logician, at 7:59 PM
MarkH - What the Archbishop is SUPPOSED to do is teach the Gospel - not make up teachings in order to grow the church.
If you don't like what the Catholic Church teaches there are others....no one is forcing you to go there if you don't like what they teach.
LL
By The Lady Logician, at 8:02 PM
LL - the verse you quoted calls for the death penalty for gay men:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them."
I misspoke on the exact verse number.
By lloydletta, at 8:16 PM
So what's the big deal? The Catholic Church has made it crystal clear that they don't like gays, so don't be a Catholic! There are billions of people that lead very happy lives without being a Catholic.
There are millions of protestants that the Catholic church doesn't want either. You don't see me, a Methodist, whihing that the church doesn't accept my lifestyle.
Newsflash, Islam doesn't like gays eithe but where are all of the editorials whining about that?
Find an church that accepts you and get on with your life. I can point you to at least 3 in Minneapolis that would be gald you have you as a member.
By Unknown, at 8:51 PM
Lady Logician - which half of the Bible are you cheering for? The Old Testament or the New?
I only wish that the Archbishop focused on teaching the Gospel.
If you read the Gospel of John very carefully, you'll find out that the only sin cited is that of unbelief.
I have no personal need to be welcomed by the Catholic Church. I'm a lifelong Protestant, and do not anticipate changing my mind about the role of a Pope any time in the foreseeable future.
There's no Pope in the Bible...
The Archbishop's assertion that a homosexual orientation is caused by some childhood trauma is mind-boggling and insulting. Unless of course he's referring to children being abused by Catholic clergy?
By Markh, at 12:14 AM
Markh you don't have to read to carefully to see there are other sins mentioned in John.
Adultery for one (John 8)
Jesus forgives her sin but also commands her to leave her life of sin.
John 8:11
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin.
John has many mentions of the law of Moses and how Jesus paid the price of the law.
What John says is that without belief you have no promise of forgiveness.
By Savage Republican, at 11:41 PM
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