Ladies Logic

Thursday, January 08, 2009

Yin And Yang

This post has been a long time in the making. I am just now getting to it in large part just because life has been so insane in the Logical Household, but also in part due to a discussion I had yesterday with my dear friend Sue Jeffers.

The battle lines are being drawn, in the debate on how to take the Republican Party forward. On one side you have the staunch ideologs - the ones who would just as soon lose a political race as long as their guy voted on principle and on the other you have the strategists - the pragmatists who argue that you have to be in the majority in order to drive the agenda.

Ideologs will tell you that principle must win out over every other consideration. While I do agree with them that you are nothing without your principles, you can still stick to your principles AND be smart about how you present those principles. That is where this discussion is going to end.

First off a definition. A RINO is someone line Linc Chaffee or Chuck Hagel - someone who rarely votes or caucuses with the Republican Party. A RINO is NOT someone who voted one time against the ideologs stand on an issue. Ron Erhardt...RINO. Mike Beard - not RINO.

Second - RON CAREY MUST GO!!!!! Ron Carey (MNGOP Chair) is singularly responsible for the loss of the Republican Majority in the House in 2006, more seats in 2008 AND the loss of Norm Coleman's Senate seat. It was HIS decision to take his bully pulpit and his soap box and trade them in for a snipers rifle - and Ron Carey is NO SNIPER. Instead of telling the voters of Minnesota what Republican values were, he slimed Democrats with the zeal of televangelist going a buck.

Two of my best friends in Minnesota represent each side of the debate. Sue Jeffers from the ideological side and Gary Gross from the strategist/pragmatist side.

Now my good friend Gary (in a post titled "Hunting RINO Hunters") takes my other good friend, Sue Jeffers to task for being a RINO hunter. However, as I have reminded Gary a time or three - the party does need people like Sue and Jason Lewis out there DEFINING Republican principles - especially since the chairman of both the state and the national parties have walked away from their bully pulpits. Someone needs to step up and fill in the vacuum!

Now to my good friend Sue, in a series of emails with me, took much of what Gary said to task. Her response was that we simply can not forsake our principles for political expediency.

Both are right - to an extent. If Republicans sacrifice their principles for that 50% + 1 strategy...well we've seen how well that has worked in the last three election cycles, haven't we.... On the other hand, Gary is right in that we can not drive the agenda from the minority. Take a look at what went unreported last Monday - on the eve of the new House session.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi plans to re-write House rules today to ensure that the Republican minority is unable to have any influence on legislation. Pelosi’s proposals are so draconian, and will so polarize the Capitol, that any thought President-elect Obama has of bipartisan cooperation will be rendered impossible before he even takes office.

One of the frustrations that many good conservative legislators share can be summed up by my good friend, Representative Mike Beard. Mike is conservative as they come - just look at his lifetime voting record. Mike has expressed to me (many times) his frustrations at not being able to influence the agenda at all - especially this year with the stakes so high. He reminded me that even when Republicans did control the House (in his first two years), the DFL controlled and stymied many of the reforms that they (the House Republican Caucus) and Governor Pawlenty wanted to enact. What's worse is the DFL actually managed (with the help of a willing media) managed to make it seem like the House Republicans were the problem. What the House Republican caucus needed was someone who could help put out the Republican message - but then chair Ron Eibensteiner was under suspicion for fraud. Even though he was eventually acquitted, he could not appear in the press without the tag "accused of fraud" following his name. Where Ron E. worked with the Governor and the House to help craft and distribute a cohesive message, Ron C has abandoned that responsibility - instead leaving the message crafting to bloggers, talk radio hosts and leaving the House and Senate caucuses to fend for themselves.

With all of this in mind, what do we do to move forward. The continued infighting and drawing lines in the sand will only ensure that we lose more seats to retirement. Many of our good Republican stalwarts (like Chris DeLaForest who retired just last year) are retiring because they are just worn down. They are finding less stressful jobs in the private sector.

The bottom line is getting the majority back and in order to do it the ideologs and the pragmatists are going to have to figure out how to work together toward a common goal. The Democrats do that right now. There are many "DINOs" in the House DFL caucus who are only out of expedience. The Democratic leadership tolerates them because they know that those people guarantee them the majority. I heard tell of a story where, Speaker Margaret Anderson-Kelliher actually went to an outstate BPOU to tell them not to challenge their rather DINO-like representative with a hard core leftist! Even she understands that there is a time and a place for ideology.

Mark Buesgens will never get elected in Phyllis Kahn's district. Laura Brod will probably not get elected in Ann Lenczewski's district either. However, put up a Steve Gottwalt or a Mike Beard in those districts and you just might win a seat. It not just a matter of the ideals that you put up it is how you present them. In some situations, a flame throwing jackhammer is the tool of choice - in others fine grit sandpaper. Don't discount the use of the sandpaper just because you prefer the jackhammer. As long as the end result is the same....

It's the yin and the yang of life and politics.

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15 Comments:

  • Unfortunately, history is written by (and about) the kind of all-things-to-all-people types who tend to win elections. In practice, in politics, you don't get far being pure. You just don't. Reagan might be the exception, but a Reagan comes along once every 100 years. That's true on both sides of the fence. I think a lot of Dems are going to be awfully disappointed by Obama's lack of devotion to leftist socialism, and his gradual movement to the middle--just my prediction. Cross our fingers that Obama moves to the middle. Very soon, he'll have 2012 in the back of his mind, just as Clinton had 1996 in the back of his mind. Kept him from going too far.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:47 PM  

  • Sue Jeffers are genuine conservatives, though they're sometimes destructive. Case in point: Mr. Lewis calling Dave Senjem an elitist for not supporting convicted criminal Mark Olson. Sometimes 'voting right' isn't the only consideration.

    I can say with total certainty that Mr. Lewis is the reason why Alison Krueger isn't representing SD-16.

    The sad part is that Alison, whom I've had the privilege of getting to know over the last 6 months, is every bit as conservative as Mr. Olson.

    It's upsetting whenever I see a conservative help a liberal win. That's where I draw the line.

    While I can't say this with the same certainty, I think it's fairly likely that Mr. Lewis' anti-Norm diatribes cost him his seat. Again, if that's the case, that's unacceptable.

    I'd further state that I'm totally capable of defining GOP principles. Though I don't have the audience that Mr. Lewis does, I'm confident that I frame the issues in a powerful, coherent manner that moves votes from independent to conservative.

    That said, while I'm upset with Ms. Jeffers & Mr. Lewis, I'll gladly work with them to get lots of conservatives elected. Though our styles are different, I take that to mean that we each have a different niche to fill.

    Finally, I agree that Ron Carey must go. Under his command, the GOP message has consistently been " Vote for us, we don't suck as much as the other side."

    Anytime you're relying on volunteers to do the nuts & bolts work of marching in parades, door-knocking, lit-dropping, etc., you need motivated people. It's been my experience that people aren't inspired by a message that says "Bust your butt for us; we don't suck as much as the liberal."

    BTW, I posted something on Gov. Pawlenty's education reform plan & how we can best market it.

    By Blogger Gary Gross, at 11:57 PM  

  • My problem is with those who seek to "label" various lawmakers without any real understanding of their background or record. Jeffers knows nothing about me! If you look at my full record in terms of legislation, doing battle with liberals in committee and on the House floor, 100% support of Governor Pawlenty's vetoes, leadership to reform prevailing wage, leadership for market-based health care reforms, 100% pro-life record, and battle to protect family and parental rights and responsibilities, it's hard to see how anyone -- even Jeffers and Lewis -- can label me a RINO (Republican In Name Only, for the uninitiated).

    Here's the bottom line: We must return to our core conservative principles, not water them down. We must also tell, show and demonstrate to the electorate how those core principles are absolutely relevant and on-target for our state and nation. The core principles of less government, fiscal restraint and more freedom are the antidote to our economic woes and the rising tide of socialism. But we've done a terrible job in terms of both walking the walk, and talking the talk.

    If you watch closely this session, you will see the strength of a House Republican caucus standing firm on conservative principles. Bottom line: If we do not do something to improve our business climate in this state, our economic woes have only just begun. Liberals seem to forget that private sector jobs and economic opportunity drive Minnesota's success. You can't raise taxes on a failing economy and expect recovery -- it's like reviving a dieing man by kicking him in the head!

    Rep. Steve Gottwalt
    House District 15A

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:17 AM  

  • OK, smart person: How do you propose to get the ideologically pure set, or even those who say that "getting back to conservative principles" is the be-all and end-all of winning, to work with us pragmatists who realize that it just ain't so?

    I've posted numerous times about the fact that the conservative base of the GOP endorsed strong conservatives for 8 Congressional seats and won 3. We endorsed 134 of the best conservatives we could find for the MN House, and lost 89 of them. If just being conservative was the answer, we would have won every time, and not lost 2/3 of the time! I don't think you will find any pragmatists saying they want to abandon conservative principles. I DO find ideologues saying we don't have to do anything other than be conservative to win. Seems to me like one side needs to move to accept reality, and then we'll all be on the same page.

    J. Ewing

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:14 AM  

  • Unfortuntely, I think Minnesota will once again have to go through their "liberal trip" and see where this will take them before they will learn from it. Talking to a MN is like talking with a 3 year old...at times, you have to tell them the opposite to get them to the results you want. There is just that stubborn streak about this state...however, there is that strain nation-wide right now---so we go through a Carter era to get rid of the virus (hopefully not a FDR strain---But I think that the positives of capitalism will not be totally forgotten in the next few years and people will again yearn and work for them). People are already tiring of Obama's "ums and Uhs" and his depressing dire outlook.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:14 PM  

  • Randy - Reagan had the ability to articulate the message in a way that did not come across as harsh and he made it a point to try to understand the other side - the purists of the day dinged him that just as some today do.

    Gary - I disagree with you on Jason's "responsibility" for Norm's loss. That lies squarely at the feet of Ron Carey as far as I'm concerned.

    Rep. Gottwalt - thanks for stopping by. I suspect that there is going to be a lot more cohesion in the Caucus this session.

    Jerry - we ALL have to work together - that is the point of this post.

    Anon - I suspect that my Minnesota friends just might disagree with you.

    LL

    By Blogger The Lady Logician, at 8:36 PM  

  • Do principles matter? What is the point of having principles if they can be bent or ignored? How far can you bend principles before they break? Is voting conservative 80% of the time the rule? Is 50%, 40%, 20% good enough?

    Gary, destructive is making excuses for RINO’s and not holding them accountable to stand for the principles we are supposed to support. Let’s put the blame where it belongs for Norm’s election, on Norm. Norm’s voting record on amnesty, drilling, cap and trade, windfall profits, S-Chip and even his comments on Mark Olson cost him votes. Ironically each vote alone could have cost him the election; together they sent over 2.5 million people to vote for another candidate.

    I would also encourage you to ask Rep. Gottwalt how he voted on the 2007 Renewable Energy legislation, the single worst piece of legislation ever passed. Ask him how he voted on the 2008 health care expansion legislation, the second single worst piece of legislation which didn’t have a free market idea in it. Maybe he forgot he voted for colorectal screening legislation another health care mandate of which MN already ranks at the top in the nation for the number of health mandates. The guy hasn’t met a bonding bills he doesn’t like and vote for. AND of course he voted for the smoking ban which is not about smoking but about property rights and government control. His words sound really nice but are not reflected in his votes.

    The blame for Allison’s race lies solely at the feet of the Senate Caucus leadership and the MN R state party. I agree she is a conservative but a political rookie with is a whole different problem that needs to be addressed before the next election. And yes, Ron Carey needs to go.

    Articulating a conservative message is crucial, and I don’t mean the message of the last few elections; we don’t suck as bad as the other party. Nor is the current strategy of; let’s wait for the Dem’s to screw up, effective. Communication, including articulating conservative solutions which resonate to the vast majority of voters, new leadership at all levels, vetting candidates and campaign coordination are just a few of the issues that our crumbling party needs address.

    Articulating a conservative message on low taxes, fiscal responsibility, immigration, photo ID, low cost energy solutions to name a few and empowering people to make decisions on our health care, schools and communities will win elections in all districts. Jumping on board with the Dem’s will not.

    The recipe for success in the Republican Party is a conservative message, new leadership and a new strategy. We must unite under a conservative banner, a banner including principles of a limited government with the central role of protecting our freedoms. As long as we have RINO’s in control of our party and people like Gary making excuses for them our party cannot and will not win. Simply put; principles matter.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:59 PM  

  • Sue, of course they do. NO ONE is advocating giving up principles! However, the ONLY way you are going to have a politician agree with YOUR individual principles 100% of the time is if that politician! Just because you don't agree 100% does not mean that the person is a RINO for goodness sake.

    We are not talking about supporting Chuck Hagel type of "Republicans". We are talking about being SMART about how we handle campaigns so that we regain the majority.

    Because you can have all of the principles in the world, but if you don't have the majority you have NO SHOT of making those principles apply to legislation!

    LL

    By Blogger The Lady Logician, at 2:09 PM  

  • LL,
    If RINO's are in charge of the majority, they set the agenda. We all saw the agenda set by the Pawlenty's, Colemans and other RINO's. Bigger more intrusive government, increased spending and fees, stadiums, LRT, and more.

    Then as we lose seats thanks to being D-light, we leave RINO's in the minority who do not fight for conservative principles they vote WITH the Dem's to increase taxes and spending, smoking bans, alternative energy legislation, universal health care, mandates and more. Conservatives lose again.

    Why bother with a platform? If our principles mean something shouldn't running as a R mean you stand for something and agree to vote that way? So exactly what IS good enough? 60%, 50%agreement? I believe Norm's numbers hover somewhere around that.

    Seriously now, LL what is that magic number?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:33 PM  

  • Sue - I will be the first to admit that I don't have all of the answers, but you are assuming a little much with your opening. No one ever said that we "let" the RINO's take charge. As a matter of fact if you had actually READ my post where I defined "RINO" I never advocated voting for people like Chaffee and Hagel. Also, in Gary's post (that I linked to if you had bothered to read it) he mentioned that 50-55 good conservatives plus 5-10 squishy's is not a bad thing because those squishy's will be with "us" more often than not!

    LL

    By Blogger The Lady Logician, at 4:06 PM  

  • Sadly LL we don't have 50-55 good conservatives and 5-10 bad ones. We put the RINO's in charge when we elected the likes of Bush, Pawlenty, Coleman and others...now we need to get rid of them or educate them on conservative solutions. My whole point is quit making excuses for them or pretending they are conservatives when their voting record clearly shows otherwise.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:21 AM  

  • So I assume that you will be running for the state legislature in 2010? Or are you just going to sit on the sidelines and complain that we don't have enough "good conservatives" in St. Paul.

    LL

    By Blogger The Lady Logician, at 11:03 AM  

  • Funny thing about that...LL. We all have a role to play huh?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:23 PM  

  • I actually have respect for Ms. Jeffers, even if I don't appreciate her myopia and misinformation. Yes, I voted for the renewable energy bill because I believed it was a worthy goal for our state, and would help ween us from dependence on foreign oil which has driven so many woes for this state and nation. I voted AGAINST the so-called DFL health care reform package in both the Health Care Access Commission and on the House Floor (i.e., she needs to check her facts). I also co-authored the GOP health care reform bill (with Rep. Matt Dean et al) that included HSAs and other market-based, consumer driven reforms (again, she needs to check her facts). I joined Reps. Emmer, Dean and Brod in producing a Minnesota Majority online video post calling urgent attention to the dangers in the DFL health care reform proposals last session -- a post that helped garner Gov. Pawlenty's opposition to the DFL bill at the last minute. Frankly, I laughed out loud when I heard Jeffers called me a RINO (heck, we all need something to make us smile these days). By the way, I'm still waiting for her call . . .
    -Rep. Steve Gottwalt

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:34 AM  

  • I didn't know I was supposed to call you Steve but I could call to ask you why you are the co-author of the primary seat belt law?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:47 PM  

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