Like Fish In A Barrel
It just doesn't get easier.....just as rmwarnick goes on a rant talking about "malicious" Republicans who "pretend" to care about the working poor we get treated to this from the Senate floor today.
Please tell me how$10.00 gallon gas isn't anything BUT malicious.
Then, in following his talking points, rmwarnick pulls out the tired old "Exxon-Mobil record profits" trope (more on that tomorrow). Thanks to my friend The Admiral at Anti-Strib we find out that THIS is nothing more than a tired old saw.
Emphasis mine. So now tell me WHO is making excessive profits on the sale of a barrel of oil????
On a side note let me ask this...oil profits are up because the value of their product has gone up. The value of their product went up because demand has gone up and there is no commiserate increase of supply. America is sitting on huge reserves of supply, that the Democrats will not allow the oil companies to access. These reserves will ensure that the price of the product in question goes down. The question is who again is responsible for the record high profits of "big oil"? It's not the "oil man" in the White House blocking access to new supply.....
Please tell me how$10.00 gallon gas isn't anything BUT malicious.
Then, in following his talking points, rmwarnick pulls out the tired old "Exxon-Mobil record profits" trope (more on that tomorrow). Thanks to my friend The Admiral at Anti-Strib we find out that THIS is nothing more than a tired old saw.
Let's get back to the "greedy" oil companies. 11.68 billion dollars by Exxon-Mobil, Wow! 11.68 on a 138 billion dollar industry. That's less than 10% Yup, I can see the greed. They paid 32.36 billion dollars in taxes. So, for every one dollar of profit Exxon-Mobil makes, it pays 3 dollars in taxes. Seems that big, bloated government is what's greedy, not Exxon-Mobil.
Emphasis mine. So now tell me WHO is making excessive profits on the sale of a barrel of oil????
On a side note let me ask this...oil profits are up because the value of their product has gone up. The value of their product went up because demand has gone up and there is no commiserate increase of supply. America is sitting on huge reserves of supply, that the Democrats will not allow the oil companies to access. These reserves will ensure that the price of the product in question goes down. The question is who again is responsible for the record high profits of "big oil"? It's not the "oil man" in the White House blocking access to new supply.....
Labels: Liberals vs Conservatives
posted by The Lady Logician at
10:20 PM
7 Comments:
"They paid 32.6 billion in taxes." What taxes? Are they corporate income tax, or are you including taxes that passed through directly to the consumer where Exxon/Mobile acts as the collection agent for the goverrnment? If so, there is a difference between taxes collected and remitted, and taxes paid.
By
Obi wan liberali, at 9:41 AM
I wasted all of my typing energy on Matthias' post which was equally poorly informed.
You people amaze me. The simple fact of this matter is that drilling will not reduce the prices we see at the pump. We import 40% of our refined gas. We can drill all we want, and that won't change. The US Dept. of Energy itself admits that offshore drilling will not effect the price of crude oil itself until around 2030. This is the best solution Republicans have?
Understanding the actual factors, not the campaign tactics we're seeing right now, is important for the making of responsible and forward thinking energy policy.
Ridiculous (and barely researched!) posts like this are an embarrassment.
By
Jason The, at 11:17 PM
Jason,
You are falsely arguing that increasing supply of oil won't decrease price at the pump because it has to be refined first and a lot of the refining occurs outside the country.
If the supply of oil increases, then the price to refiners decreases which leads to decreases at the pump (unless the Rockefellers still have the oil market rigged).
And even if the demand for oil increases faster than the supply, we'll still pay less than we would have if he hadn't drilled at all.
These are changes won't occur overnight.
By
Unknown, at 10:11 AM
Obi,
You mention tax incidence, but you should also point out that corporate income taxes, sales taxes on inputs, state and local property taxes, state severance taxes, federal lease payments etc are paid by people just like the excise taxes you are talking about. Economists can debate all day as to how much each group -- shareholders, employees, customers -- are paying, but at the end of the day people are paying these taxes.
By
Unknown, at 11:22 AM
Obi - the thing is on any manufactured product the taxes ARE PASSED ON to the consumer. It is a fact of life that some people only seem to remember when it suits their particular political argument. The last comment is correct - PEOPLE pay taxes. When corporations pay the taxes they come out of your 401(k) or retirement fund or pension.....
Jason - while it is true that the prices will not go down IN THE SHORT TERM, simple Economics 101 tells you that when demand for a product is high and supply is low, the price goes up. When the supply is HIGH and the demand is low - THE PRICE GOES DOWN! You can deny it all you want but this is a fact of life that will never go away!
LL
By
The Lady Logician, at 12:51 PM
Just the facts: The $30 billion in taxes Exxon "pays" are actually paid by the end consumer. In addition, the end consumer pays ANOTHER $0.18 per gallon of federal "excise" taxes. Let's see... 50% of a 42-gallon barrel goes into gasoline, 20 million barrels/day, times 18 cents/gallon... here we are: ANOTHER $27 billion in federal taxes paid at the pump. And Democrats want to raise that! Anybody think that gas prices will go down if taxes on it go up?
On the other hand, gas prices have declined about 10% since Bush simply announced the possibility of crilling for more domestic oil. The Energy Department numbers are a crock and everybody knows it. We could have oil from the Gulf in about 18 months and from ANWR in 2-3 years. Oil shale will take considerably longer because, while the technology IS available, the infrastructure is not. Just the two "ordinary" oil reserves more than double our domestic reserves. Going from 30% domestic production to 60% domestic production would be a good start and the price WOULD come down, because we can produce it for about $50/bbl. The oil shales contain 20 times as much oil. By the time that runs out, we'll have something else to run our cars on. Unless Democrats force us to run out sooner.
J. Ewing
By
Anonymous, at 10:35 AM
Just so I understand, the sales tax I pay the dealership when I buy a car and the dealer sends to the Tax Commission is really a tax paid for by the dealership?
There is a big difference between taxes on profits, and taxes that are collected by the business from the consumer and transmitted to the government. And trying to give Exxon/Mobil credit for taxes that they collect and then pass on is rediculous, especially considering that depending on how often they have to transmit that money to the government, they get to keep that money as working capital between payments.
By
Obi wan liberali, at 9:56 AM
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